Is Australia really just a ‘middle power’, or are we underestimating our ability to influence world affairs?

On this week’s Afternoon Light Georgina Downer sits down for a lively discussion with Allan Behm and Emma Shortis, exploring and testing their thesis that Australia can spearhead the establishment of a new international rules-based order. As well as debating whether it is time for Australian foreign policy to chart greater distance from the United States and the geostrategic integration proposed under AUKUS.

Allan Behm and Emma Shortis head the Australia Institute’s International & Security Affairs Program. They have just released the book New Game, New Rules: A Foreign Policy for Dystopian Times.